(;GM[1]FF[4]CA[UTF-8]AP[CGoban:3]ST[2]
RU[Japanese]SZ[19]KM[6.50]TM[3600]OT[5x60 byo-yomi]
PW[Ryan Li]PB[Ilya Shikshin]WR[1p]BR[2p]DT[2019-07-07]CP[online-go.com]EV[Transatlantic  Professional Go  Team Championship]RO[8]PC[OGS: https://online-go.com/game/18588826]WT[AGA]BT[EGF]C[Crazywind: Hi Ilya
roln90: hi
]RE[B+3.50]
;B[pd]C[Crazywind: Hi Ilya
roln90: hi
]
;W[dd]C[roln90: have a nice game
Fuseques: hi you two
S_Alexander: Have fun everyone!
MooToYouToo: glhf
BHydden: have a good game to you both <3
Fuseques: my leela says 55% for white here
]
;B[pq]C[GoDave89: lol
Fuseques: version 1.5.64 tesla gpu core X
MooToYouToo: @Fuseques yeah black should resign
]
;W[dp]
;B[cq]C[S_Alexander: Huh, didn't think this would be Ilya's choice for nickname.
MooToYouToo: It begins
joerg: he's been roln for years
snakesss: lel
aieyes: is he born in 1990?
mekriff 白金花: "they see me roln, they hatin"
キツネ囲碁: I guess the expected russian nickname would be the full name + full last name + date of birth + place of birth + current song
cezaa: hello o7
iloovechess: lets get this party started. I want to see some blood today
mekriff 白金花: well, not sure there's gonna be so much blood as wires and metal
mekriff 白金花: this looks like a bot-transforming game
]
;W[cp]C[shapiro.e.e: Удачи Черным !
S_Alexander: tbh, expected russian nickname would be nagibator99 :)
]
;B[dq]
;W[ep]C[S_Alexander: white was supposed to block towards black stone?
Kountch: Hello. Why is not Artem playing?
mekriff 白金花: expected russion name would be theRealDonaldTrump_
MooToYouToo: @Kountch He has a wedding, he will play if Ilya loses
mekriff 白金花: or some small substitution for people to not notice
]
;B[fq]C[💖 KoBa 💖: arten getting married this weekend ^^
💖 KoBa 💖: *artem
Kountch: Thanks @MooToYouToo
S_Alexander: super modern
MooToYouToo: np
jakubiszon: His own wedding? Oh wow.
mekriff 白金花: mmm, I've never seen this variation
S_Alexander: i like black
]
;W[qo]C[S_Alexander: mekr, i've seen!
str901: leela loved those for some reason
Fuseques: my leela verson 1.5.47 says it hates parrots
gillespie.evan: [object Object\]
mekriff 白金花: I usually F2 here
mekriff 白金花: and nobody really invades my 3-3s directly
Sadiker: r4
BHydden: loving all the yellow in chat <3 
mekriff 白金花: so I don't ever see F3
snakesss: i dont think so alex, c4 is more preferred on this board according to waltheri
StephanieYin: [object Object\]
S_Alexander: I pulled out my trusty paper fan so i appear enough of a go player 
dneg: oh wow
gillespie.evan: The AI values the 3-3 a lot more than humans did
S_Alexander: BHydden: yeah, ogs reviews are cheap and convenient, you bought me with those.
bugcat: Hi all!
bugcat: Glad to see I got here early
snowman: don't read the yellow comments
bugcat: haha, don't bully the supporters
bugcat: they are the backbone of the site
GlennMartenRobin: R9? F4?
]
;B[op]C[💖 KoBa 💖: never eat a yellow snowman
mekriff 白金花: I AM THE SENATE!
bugcat: I see we have a dedicated colour for pro names now
]
;W[fp]C[S_Alexander: black strong
hexahedron: ooh old style kosumi
]
;B[gr]
;W[hq]C[MooToYouToo: this shusaku move is really popular nowadays
mekriff 白金花: it's probably a nicer color when I'm not doing night mode :p
S_Alexander: love that after all these years love for solid kosumi is back 
Fuseques: come on this can't be joseki :(
snowman: you too, koba...
Sadiker: R8?
Animiral: why can't it be joseki?
mekriff 白金花: this is indeed a game
BHydden: @bugcat yep all recognised pros (past and present) are Green with their official pro rank
bugcat: good good
S_Alexander: "Shusaku's kosumi" is from a specific position though.
bugcat: eh, I'm OK with people using the name for any local occurence
Fuseques: the f3 ruins the cut aji :\\
MooToYouToo: ah I always just think of him when I see it
Fuseques: and then why g2 instead of g3
joerg: @BHydden: doesn't apply to Stephanie?
bugcat: not many people are playing the Shusaku proper these days
Recursion: Does anybody have a link to last game?
mekriff 白金花: we got some good old style kosumi and 3-3 invasion from the same player
joerg: she was listed as 8d above
Animiral: hm I would also g3
BHydden: @joerg applies to everyone we've been told about :) lol
]
;B[ci]C[S_Alexander: BHydden: greed names look terrible on white players block. "Crazywind" is unreadable :(
bugcat: I'd play R8 here
MooToYouToo: @Recursion https://online-go.com/game/18494065
S_Alexander: *green
snakesss: would you g2 though, as black?
dneg: oh right, is that last game moo?
BHydden: which is her username? she's 2pn right?
hexahedron: maybe they'll comment on the pro understanding of G3 vs F3 once twitch commentary starts
MooToYouToo: yeah
Recursion: @MootoYouToo thank you!
dneg: cool, thx
Vanlash: this move puts all the pressure on white while staying safe. Black is playing very smart.
Animiral: Recursion: use this: #18588826 it suits your name ;-)
]
;W[qc]C[Cezary: hi 
S_Alexander: BHydden: when a person creates review, it shows buggy rank, always
]
;B[qd]
;W[pc]
;B[od]
;W[nb]C[joerg: not buggy rank
snakesss: blitz
]
;B[ql]C[bugcat: yay, I predicted that sequence
Fuseques: you did?
BHydden: oh i see
bugcat: only in my head
joerg: it's not the over all rank, but the rank of the game being reviewed, I think
Fuseques: i see.
joerg: it's a bit confusing though
bugcat: it's a very natural one
jakubiszon: black-white-black-white-black-white - this is moreless how much I could predict the pro games...
BHydden: yeah her official profile is marked as 1p don't know why it says 8d but I'll let the right people know
Vanlash: I would be scared to invade the 3,3 with out out side prep moves first. If I was white going against this result from black I would feel so much pressure.
S_Alexander: oh, how did black know it's the right pincer?
mekriff 白金花: c'mon jakubiszon, this is a 176 person chat
mekriff 白金花: collectively we are 20p!
bugcat: R8 is the natural pincer when you have P4
bugcat: that's been established for over a century
hexahedron: yeah, this is a pretty normal pincer distance in this shape
bugcat: sometimes you can R9 instead
S_Alexander: ok, i didn't know that!
]
;W[ck]
;B[cf]
;W[ce]
;B[df]
;W[fd]
;B[dk]
;W[dl]
;B[dj]
;W[cl]C[Vanlash: h17?
Fuseques: nice output
S_Alexander: so fast
Vanlash: or n17?
Fanperson112: they're playing fast
bugcat: Q12?
Vanlash: true
bugcat: Old pro games make me want to play Q6 ^^
bugcat: but probably Q12 is better
Fuseques: m16 seems aight
S_Alexander: Ilya is super fighty. Whole-board tsumego are his specialty.
]
;B[ol]C[S_Alexander: Should be fun!
bugcat: ooh interesting move
hexahedron: How about E18? :)
Vanlash: can white live in the corner
Fanperson112: Q6 is still a thing, but after white move on the bottom it seems no use to create influence there
]
;W[mc]
;B[md]
;W[ld]
;B[nc]C[bugcat: true
]
;W[lb]C[bugcat: good insight
]
;B[le]
;W[kd]C[bugcat: P8 is the better move towards the right, yeah
joerg: lower right corner? There is still aji
Cezary: it looks like they both have appointments later today
snakesss: lol
bugcat: hehe
snakesss: blitz it!
mekriff 白金花: SE says W+24 points, so B must be winning :p
mirreke: they wanna go to the wedding maybe? ;-)
BHydden: we all know SE is flawless
bugcat: Black's position has looked better to me all game
Fanperson112: I am looking forward to the fight on the right side
S_Alexander: SE is probably right when it comes to solid territory
Fuseques: this is probably the correct pace of playing the opening in a 1h main time game..
S_Alexander: proof opening doesn't matter
hexahedron: white not giving atari is a nice example of basic  technique - it means that black doesn't have as much followup with P18 and S17 hanes
mekriff 白金花: what? everyone knows the first 60 moves should take half of the time
Fanperson112: atari here is not a good move
Fanperson112: it makes some bad aji around P18
Vanlash: I've been in this position a lot as white. I've very interested to see how he brings this back.
Vanlash: i'm*
S_Alexander: i'm worried about white top, but black looks good
S_Alexander: invites fighting
bugcat: there must be an invasion in the white top
snakesss: i like white atm, black spent too much too early on that r5
S_Alexander: viewers are coming in very fast today
bugcat: good :3
mekriff 白金花: how to use mega influence to make mega-territory
S_Alexander: E18?
Fuseques: people should really stop suggesting E18
mekriff 白金花: E19
mekriff 白金花: is that better?
bugcat: Q12
clywzach: lol
Cezary: i like it mekriff
snakesss: first e1 to ask question
snakesss: then e19
Cezary: oh yes
bugcat: hahaha
Cezary: e1 probe is compulsory
LeaSaco: C17 ?
Fuseques: the local move is c17
bugcat: T1 probe
Fuseques: but it doesn't seem urgent
mooooo: M3
MooToYouToo: Xhu called P4 a shusaku diagonal too!
S_Alexander: Fuseques: i scrolled up the chat, no one was suggesting E18, calling you out!
MooToYouToo: I feel validated
Fuseques: someone suggested it
snowman: black's has a wide moyo and white got solid territory
bugcat: I wonder if Black is reading out a move like R4
S_Alexander: yeah, one person
Cezary: ilya is thinking long, meaning he's about to blow this board to pieces in a huge fight
dneg: 3-3 now? :D
Recursion: Strong players: who do you prefer?
snowman: now black is wondering about that
Fuseques: at 21:33
tymak: I missed the start....why is playing Ilya instead of Artem?
joerg: getting married
Coorchac: EGF used Wild card to change player
MooToYouToo: Artem will play if Ilya loses
bugcat: actually going to change my guess, going R4
mekriff 白金花: make some move along bottom for terr?
mekriff 白金花: like L3 or something?
hexahedron: @Fuseques - I thought it was an interesting move, since it was actually the favorite move of the bot I have running in that position, although I agree the shape is far less standard.
hexahedron: (E18)
Fanperson112: I see no obvious move for expanding black's moyo, so maybe an invasion is appropriate
Fuseques: it still made a bit of sense when you suggested it..
hexahedron: yeah, it makes no sense now
]
;B[jp]C[bugcat: woah
mekriff 白金花: ooh, that's interesting
S_Alexander: hmmmm
S_Alexander: does this make sense?
mekriff 白金花: but I was only sqrt(2) spaces off
Vanlash: i was thinking k3 but k4 wow. it looks good.
snakesss: is this a preparation for when white uses the aji on lower right?
Vanlash: does a lot of different things
bugcat: oh yeah, this is definitey better than K3
S_Alexander: is it?
bugcat: I would say so
snakesss: cuz of p8?
Fuseques: dunno i am not a fan of this one
snakesss: why?
mekriff 白金花: not very territory
bugcat: in part
mekriff 白金花: but very influence
Cezary: what does katago aka kg aka kyle gass say about this move hexahedron ?
mekriff 白金花: much bold
Fuseques: the k4 area seems boring to me
bugcat: K3 is too low here imo, this move works well with the right side position
snakesss: boring huh?
snakesss: where is the excitement for black?
hexahedron: @Cezary - KG liked black G3 and cut instead of K4, but this move is okay too
mekriff 白金花: yeah, b doesn't have a lot of things to fight
snakesss: white got exciting things to play but i cant see such things for black
Recursion: @hexahedron % and points?
mekriff 白金花: for all of his influence
Cezary: i see
Vanlash: whites going to ignore this and slap a stone in the middle of the q12 area
Vanlash: believe it xD
Cezary: in fact g3 and cut isnt something i would be surprised to see done by ilya
S_Alexander: can ilya just have all the right half of the board? would be nice
snakesss: not yet for q12 imo
hexahedron: currently KG has black winrate at 38%, -3.9 points (but as we know, that mild of a percent means little in human games)
mekriff 白金花: no invasion of the right side? After the 3-3 was played?
mekriff 白金花: sounds unlikely
Vanlash: whats the local move for white h5?
clywzach: what is KG? the ai here on ogs?
bugcat: it's a basic fact that White must invade the right to win
Recursion: thanks
]
;W[gq]C[snakesss: yeah but not yet
]
;B[fr]C[bugcat: yeah but at some point
snakesss: wait til the last moment til u invade they say
snakesss: for pros anyway
hexahedron: clywzach - KG is KataGo (new bot with score estimation in addition to just winrate, about LZ200 level)
Fanperson112: who says that ?
mekriff 白金花: well, the last *good* moment
mekriff 白金花: there are plenty of bad ones afterwards where you live
Joaz Banbeck: I'd probe with an attachment to P8 or R8, force to commit to upper right or lower right.
Vanlash: its fun watching pro's and trying to guess next moves lol.
Cezary: @hex did you write it ? is it opensource ?
S_Alexander: i wanna eat something
Fuseques: sooo... o10?
snakesss: rely?
snakesss: no invasion eh?
]
;W[ni]C[S_Alexander: lol
snakesss: and o10 now?
hexahedron: Cezary - yes, I wrote it, yes it's open source (you can google for it)
snakesss: nice
S_Alexander: boom
bugcat: I'd make make a kikashi at N15 before anything
Fuseques: fancy
Fanperson112: I was also eyeing O10
Cezary: google solved it mister lightvector
mekriff 白金花: Welcome to Basics Day with Batts
bugcat: maybe N15 is gote though
mekriff 白金花: Today we're going over Sector Lines
Fuseques: this one is kind of inviting m11 real bad though
Recursion: wow
hexahedron: here we go, fight fight fight!
]
;B[pi]C[hexahedron: aww, black doesn't want to fight
]
;W[rq]
;B[rr]C[mekriff 白金花: Man, who let Batts play in the professional tournament?
S_Alexander: black attacks white on a large scale 
Joaz Banbeck: N15?
Vanlash: its whites counter attack time. He's been pushed around all game.
hexahedron: N15 is possible at the right time, but it has some big endgame costs for white at P18 and S17 still
Recursion: @hexahedron you're the author of kg? Congratulations! Really impressive
bugcat: simple var?. From move 45: R2 R3 S1 S4 T2 S5 
S_Alexander: is this going to be the fight of the evening?
snakesss: i dont think so
Recursion: @S_Alexander all these games have been decided in byo-yomi
snakesss: white gonna live simply, black gonna get smt on the outside, most likely
mekriff 白金花: the only thing b can get on the outside is to solidify his box
snakesss: is that right at all? xD
S_Alexander: black can get whole center
mekriff 白金花: I mean in this exchange lol
S_Alexander: if they get a few moves in a row
bugcat: I think Black will refuse to end in gote
bugcat: because a move in the centre is very good
S_Alexander: if white tenukis now...
snakesss: oo
snakesss: that makes sense to me, could he?
Fuseques: sure this can be a probe
S_Alexander: O11 was a probe too?
snakesss: cap under or over?
mekriff 白金花: I'd be loathe to call it a probe
Fuseques: o11 could become a huge fight had black capped from the middl
Fuseques: after he just defends there is no continuation
Gkko: @bugcat black would at least descent at 4 for sente?. From move 45: R2 R3 S1 T2 T3 S4 T1 R4 Q2 P2 Q1 
snowman: reducing move, more likely
snakesss: i thought it was a probe
Fuseques: by playing s2 black allows white to live if w wants to spend a move on that
hexahedron: playing this kind of position as white makes me really nervous - black has so much influence
]
;W[fk]C[Gonokokki: a move is what it is, no matter what you call it
bugcat: ah, but then maybe White ataris this way?. From move 45: R2 R3 T2 
]
;B[ho]C[bugcat: and then can respond to the extension like this. From move 45: R2 R3 T2 S1 S4 
S_Alexander: see, black wants whole centre 
Fuseques: why would w want to atari from the side you suggest?
hexahedron: H5 really annoying for white
bugcat: hmm, probably wouldn't have worked anyway
]
;W[fh]C[Saddharmapundarika: why not P17 is not important for white?
S_Alexander: attack!
bugcat: ooh, nice move
snakesss: dayum
snakesss: apparently h5 not so annoyinng
str901: watch b12 
bugcat: I dunno... I might play G4 anyway
snakesss: no! rly? does b need that?
bugcat: I don't think White is really threatening to change group status
snakesss: m11 xd
foreverasloan: @Saddharmapundarika white should be ok. From move 45: R2 P18 P17 Q18 R18 
snakesss: i am lose the plot when they start arguing about sente
S_Alexander: my back hurts a bit
snakesss: pros should on the same page about biggest moves
Saddharmapundarika: looks like w is going to make life in center and let black live small on left side
bugcat: nah, it's not like that
snakesss: so, was h5 slow?
bugcat: sente is often debatable
snakesss: is b alive on the left without a move?
hexahedron: h5 was reasonable, but it's not big enough to respond to or follow up
Fanperson112: H5 still looks well placed
hexahedron: it but wasn't bad either
Fanperson112: the fact w tenukied doesn't change its value
hexahedron: yeah
hexahedron: exactly
bugcat: there is an eye through forcing moves. From move 48: G4 E13 F10 G10 F11 G11 E9 E8 G9 F8 E11 
hexahedron: black should not die even if tenuki, but the question is how pleasant it will be (as white builds profit by threatening it)
bugcat: ^
snakesss: yeh
richlowe: h9?
]
;B[fe]C[mekriff 白金花: Stephanie accidentally said this was the last game :p
S_Alexander: boom
mekriff 白金花: Freudian slip?
snakesss: what, so she thinks black winning?
mekriff 白金花: she was saying "that's the last move" but accidentally said "game"
snakesss: what does ai say?
S_Alexander: ilya's looking for a fight
snakesss: ah, okie
Saddharmapundarika: P6 will eventually be a very important move for either player:)
Sadiker: G15
mekriff 白金花: so naturally our response was "what does she know that we don't" and "No faith in NA"
bugcat: wait, P6?
bugcat: why P6?
Saddharmapundarika: connection and life
bugcat: not seeing it
Saddharmapundarika: it is the ideal shape point for both sides
snowman: :)
richlowe: it is?
]
;W[ge]C[bugcat: I heavily doubt that
bugcat: if anything R2 / R3 is the key point
Saddharmapundarika: it is not the way to play of cousre but it is the best spot in that local area
snowman: we'll see
Seregon: R3 is the key point down there
Poetbat: e15 now
Saddharmapundarika: it is not the *only way to play of cousre but it is the best spot in that local area
bugcat: it's not though
Here We Go: give it a rest mate, you don't know what you're talking about
Here We Go: no offence
tpnZbonek: -_- 10k commenting pro game.. awesome
Saddharmapundarika: no worries not everyboday agrees its ok
bugcat: anyway, ideas about how Black is going to handle this?
hexahedron: other variations are possible in the lower right, for example this is one of KG's lines that it's thinking about. From move 50: F14 G16 M8 R7 Q7 Q6 S7 S6 
lukas.kramer.739: f13 and e16 are my c<ndidates
Vanlash: doesn't white lose if he starts with r2 and with r3 im not sure if there is enough space.
Fanperson112: why does hovering variation leaves small marks on my board
Seregon: b can cut the 2 space jump and fight soon
Joaz Banbeck: I don't mind 10K comments
Saddharmapundarika: black can still invade the top right corner at some point
bugcat: yeah everyone should feel free to comment
jakubiszon: could you share a top right invasion sequence then?
gasana: invade top right?
Joaz Banbeck: @Fan112: soft wood
GoDave89: yeah - just don't pretend you know everything and every comment is good :P
Saddharmapundarika: i'm sorry i don't know all joseki
Gkko: the other right I guess
GoDave89: good = welcomed ^^
Saddharmapundarika: but it is possible
tpnZbonek: true, im sorry.. pls share all your variations you talk about :)
bugcat: heyo Dave
bugcat: congrats on 4d
GoDave89: huh?
GoDave89: I'm still 2d ^^
bugcat: oh yeah, the glitchy chat ranks
bugcat: I forgot about them
GoDave89: hmm?
Vanlash: if you dont ask questions how can you get answers? Almost every Go player I've ever met has been more than willing to share their knowledge with people who are lower ranked than them. 
GoDave89: oh - you meant here?
]
;B[be]C[bugcat: yep
]
;W[bd]
;B[gf]C[GoDave89: ah ^^ - thx then ^^
bugcat: oh, wait, you are 4d here
bugcat: so again congrats
Fanperson112: sorry Joaz, I don't quite know what you mean
bugcat: I think you were 3d last time we played
S_Alexander: most of the chat is pretty mindless anyway
cNewbi: How close are OGS ranks compared to what you might be in real life?
Here We Go: damn right, Alex
]
;W[ee]
;B[ff]C[S_Alexander: cNewbi: depends on the real life system.
]
;W[ef]
;B[eg]
;W[fg]C[lukas.kramer.739: b15 g14 plan is not good for ilya :/
Seregon: @Fan112 it was a joke
lukas.kramer.739: fuuuu
tpnZbonek: cNewbi depends on country.. in my country its like OGS is 2 kye/dans better then real
Fanperson112: ah, I get it
S_Alexander: hmmmmm
]
;B[he]C[cNewbi: What country Zbonek?
bugcat: I've found OGS ranks to be anywhere from the same as EGF SDK ranks to one or two stones higher
tpnZbonek: czech republic
miladragon3: Could S4 be a possibility for black at some point, to attack those white stones?
tpnZbonek: but actually it should suite for whole europe?
mirreke: I think OGS rank is somewhat higher than EGF
cNewbi: Ah my mother land on my dad's side
S_Alexander: i think ogs is generally +-2 ranks
mirreke: I'm only 13k EGF
hyperpape: miladragon: those two white stones live or die based on who plays next, I think. 
MooToYouToo: can white D15 in sente?
hexahedron: Miladragon3 - S4 is a little slow/heavy after black responds R2
S_Alexander: in russian ranks i'd never win 3k
Vanlash: I've found OGS is almost always stronger than any other place.
hexahedron: white would be comitted to absolutely make it all live
hexahedron: after that
newgoacount: OGS is stronger than IGS and most other servers
Fanperson112: w is considering not answering ?
tpnZbonek: i play not very long EGF and im 15 kyu so cant tell for sure.. but 12-13 kyu EGF players are really tough for me
hyperpape: hexahedron, I think he was asking if B could play there
stock.up: black will win, i bet
Fanperson112: locally, what would be the right shape ? E16? D15?
hexahedron: FanPerson - KG thinks not answering is best in fact :). Likes White E12 about 3-4 percent better than any other move
bugcat: hey Alex, is Russia in the EGF?
tonyhalik: yes
bugcat: thanks
Fanperson112: oh, atari
bugcat: thought so
hexahedron: (and the following variation does NOT have white go back and connect G16 afterward either)
cezaa:  how else would ilya be egf pro lol
smakotin: [object Object\]
bugcat: haha indeed
Fanperson112: should we deduce that black's plan was not good ?
S_Alexander: Russia has separate ranks.
cNewbi: Hypothetically, If I am even against lets say a 10kyu computer, would that imply I am about 10kyu, or higher/lower by +/- 2kyu?
Fanperson112: with black's moves, H15felt rather natural
hyperpape: miladragon3: my guess it Black would locally play R3 to settle. 
Joaz Banbeck: Black getting 1.5 weak groups. Gonna be fun.
hyperpape: But it will be after most of these other fights get settled, I'd think. 
hyperpape: (Take that with a grain of salt, I'm pretty weak)
tpnZbonek: play humans computers are weird -_- at least kyu comps
miladragon3: Why settle, couldn't you kill it?
S_Alexander: how is this any good for black?
]
;W[eh]C[hexahedron: Example variation from KG. From move 60: D13 E16 B13 H13 A16 A17 A15 B17 H14 J13 
]
;B[dg]C[Animiral: cNewbi: if it's the first time you played the 10k bot, you are 10k. If you've played it 100 times and now you're even, then you're probably 16k.
hyperpape: Yes, that I meant that I thought it would kill. 
miladragon3: Oh got it lol
]
;W[gd]C[cNewbi: Thank you
Saddharmapundarika: B10 nice?
S_Alexander: double atari
str901: which one is from aga
S_Alexander: kyu sees atari - plays atari
bugcat: this to start with?. From move 62: D15 E16 C16 C17 
]
;B[de]
;W[ed]
;B[cd]
;W[cc]
;B[hg]C[bugcat: ^^
]
;W[hi]C[Fanperson112: this still feels like a success for white to me
S_Alexander: these guys play pretty fast
bugcat: still, I don't like this for Black... feels like he lost focus and got too fancy for his own good
newgoacount: How is white gonna deal with that right side, any ideas?
Gonokokki: b adding a stone somewhere in the lower right would more like seal the area for black completely, therefore S4 has somewhat meek feel to it, something to be played if b was weak in the area
Fanperson112: but i didn't read thoroughly the status of the left side group
S_Alexander: black wants a fight
Joaz Banbeck: I like N15 more now.  Followd by N14.  Let B take the upper right corner in gote.
tpnZbonek: cut at g11?
Saddharmapundarika: black has big potential still on the right side
Fanperson112: the cutting stone just gets captured 
bugcat: I'd play J11 now even if it was badd
mirreke: is black alive on the left side?
Fanperson112: why would you play it "even if it was bad"? 
Saddharmapundarika: looks like he can make a life still
newgoacount: pretty sure
bugcat: heh, just a bit of hyperbole
bugcat: like Otake Hideo saying he wouldn't play an empty triangle even if every other move lost
Here We Go: lol
tpnZbonek: 5. From move 68: G11 F11 G12 G10 H10 J10 H9 K8 H7 
S_Alexander: i wanna sleepy sleep
bugcat: this though?. From move 68: G11 F11 G12 G10 H10 G13 
Fanperson112: unless there is some cut aji after black fills a liberty to the three white stones, it looks like he must add a move
tpnZbonek: 6. From move 68: G11 G12 F10 E10 E11 F11 E9 G10 F8 
Saddharmapundarika: white will need H9
S_Alexander: tomorrow nakamura sumire is playing, i think, if anyone's interested 
hexahedron: No, this. From move 68: G11 H12 G12 G13 
hexahedron: black should not be able to cut at G11 right now
Fanperson112: I wonder how black can settle this position
bugcat: keepin' it simple. From move 68: J11 J10 J12 H10 K10 
Fanperson112: starting the ko now looks rather reckless
]
;B[gj]C[AdamR: Twitch commentary is now live again https://www.twitch.tv/usgoweb
Saddharmapundarika: but black can make goo pressure with E11
hexahedron: game still even!
Saddharmapundarika: *good
Fanperson112: katago's opinion, hexahedron ?
hexahedron: yep
]
;W[fj]C[Fanperson112: that's great
]
;B[bc]
;W[ce]
;B[ad]C[hexahedron: many minor mistakes (in KG's opinion) on both sides, but cancelled out mostly
miladragon3: B can cut now, right?
Fanperson112: woah
]
;W[cd]
;B[bg]C[Fanperson112: G11/ F10 F10 somehow helps black's group on the top ?
hexahedron: players playing very bursty moves, they're clearly in agreement on a lot of their reading
Saddharmapundarika: sacrifice to make life i think
Fanperson112: minus one f10, sorry
]
;W[jh]C[Fanperson112: now N15 can be considered, don't you think ?
Fanperson112: w can handle a ko 
]
;B[ii]
;W[ih]C[hexahedron: ooh, KG really really doesn't like J11
]
;B[hh]C[bugcat: whenever you say KG my mind says "Kingsguard"...
Saddharmapundarika: O13 O14 possibly better?
]
;W[gi]C[Fanperson112: just G11 looks like such solid shape
Joaz Banbeck: Q11 starting to look too passive
Fanperson112: now black will be running alone
]
;B[jf]C[S_Alexander: gg?
Sadiker: I don't get j11.
Fanperson112: what would be the best answer to k12?
snakesss: hah steph yin criticising h5
S_Alexander: i still blame timeout
]
;W[me]C[Joaz Banbeck: YES
newgoacount: finally
bugcat: J11 is to cut off the J12 stones
Fanperson112: hey, I called it !
newgoacount: Now black gets to try and escape
Saddharmapundarika: J16 black can make trouble i think for white in that area
hexahedron: KG simple variation, 40% for black. From move 76: K13 L12 L14 
Vanlash: black easily sees if he plays the obvious moves this wins for white. So he will come up with a something special I'm sure.
bugcat: try to keep integrity?. From move 82: N14 O16 O15 P17 O14 
S_Alexander: how is the point estimation here?
Fanperson112: thank you, hexahedron
bugcat: well I guess you would end with a capture. From move 82: N14 O16 O15 P17 N16 
sriracha: KataGo says W+8
S_Alexander: still ok then
Fanperson112: I usually don't like the overuse of AI %, but you show just enough that makes it very interesting
cNewbi: Why wouldnt white just extend down and keep pressure on the middle group?
hexahedron: Expected variation if black connects. From move 82: O16 M14 L13 L15 M12 
Fanperson112: I still have a hard time thinking that H5 is a faulty move
]
;B[lg]C[bugcat: nose tesuji?. From move 82: L12 O16 R3 
Fanperson112: It really didn't look like protecting the left side followed the flow of the game
S_Alexander: ok, now it's moral advantage for white
hexahedron: Fanperson112 - bot says H5 was good
hexahedron: so your intuition is like mine - it was a fine move
hexahedron: (at the time it was played)
Fanperson112: so then, black's mistake was the tsuke-hane ? or was it still even then ?
hexahedron: it was all about even until J11, in KG's opinion - if I'm interpreting right, it's because it gives white too much center strength, and black still has some bad aji around L14/J14
lukas.kramer.739: b15 seeemed wonrg
Fanperson112: I see
]
;W[mf]C[cNewbi: yay he played the move i wanted :)
hexahedron: but, still, bot percentages are not entirely relevant, we know games regularly have huge swings (which is why I'm trying to to flood chat with percentages) :)
hexahedron: trying *not to flood
Fanperson112: yes, a respectable attempt
Fanperson112: it seems to me like white will naturally lay waste of the right side while attacking
S_Alexander: i like score estimations opposed to %
Fanperson112: but maybe I'm under-estimating black's sabaki strengh
hexahedron: well, if you want one score estimation right now, it's black 24%, -9 points, next move N13 or M11
Fanperson112: well, would it really help you pick a move here to know that w is leading by X,5 points, Alexander?
S_Alexander: no, but it helps me understand how the game is going
Fanperson112: this very much looks like a game I could lose as white
S_Alexander: % can be 99 when it's half a point game
]
;B[li]C[Fanperson112: i'm not sure that's how percentage works
Fanperson112: oh, i misread your sentence
]
;W[ph]C[hexahedron: it can be, if it's at the end of the game yeah
Joaz Banbeck: Sac J12/K12, trash right side
Saddharmapundarika: I think black needed to play F14 or G15 as a move much earlier
hexahedron: ooh fight fight
newgoacount: nooo not internet
hexahedron: uhoh
Fanperson112: the european curse continues ?
Here We Go: Lol
hyperpape: Does lightning indicate disconnection? 
hyperpape: Or just low on time?
Here We Go: This is mad
smurph: Pause the gaemu D:
Fanperson112: disconnection
BHydden: I'm gonna stop complaining about Australian internet now...
mirreke: it indicates connection loss
str901: pause the game 
Fanperson112: I hope they have some ruling on how to handle disconnection now >:D
]
;B[oh]
;W[oi]C[mirreke: they have, yes
AdamR: They do :) 
Kamelotusky: There wss a new rule about that... Dont relember though :p
BHydden: this is an official tournament... the game doesn't just get paused
snakesss: lol
Sadiker: O12
]
;B[og]C[Here We Go: Phew
newgoacount: heh black wants that territory
Joaz Banbeck: P14?
]
;W[qk]C[mekriff 白金花: One does not simply, pause an official tournament game
hexahedron: R9 is a neat idea, these are exactly the kinds of moves I never consider in my own games even though I should
hexahedron: driving tesuji ish ideas against Q11
bugcat: I'm gonna duck out here
Fanperson112: yes, good looking move
bugcat: Enjoy the rest of the game, guys :3
Fanperson112: what's KG estimation over the last few moves ?
BHydden: @mekriff 白金花 yep... opportunity missed... *hangs head in shame*
Fanperson112: without something like R9 it seemed a little too soft for white
hexahedron: KG has disliked white's recent play, but also black's responses, bouncing around, it's at 30% black now (-6.4 points)
Fanperson112: I see
hexahedron: it's a big tactical mess
hexahedron: that's obvious even without a bot :)
]
;B[pk]C[Fanperson112: i wonder if there's some crazy aji around R7after black plays R11 
hexahedron: wow no black R11
Fanperson112: yeah, that's rather unexpected
lukas.kramer.739: -10?
lukas.kramer.739: -20?
Fanperson112: b cannot possibly give white that stone
hexahedron: no, it's unexpected as a human dan player watching the game (but yes, KG also is surprised, sigh)
hexahedron: :)
]
;W[pj]C[Fanperson112: so should we expect something like Q10 R11 R10 S12
]
;B[qi]C[magmadiver: q13 is sente
Fanperson112: or is there some trick with R10 P10
Telescope: is black having some internet issues ?
]
;W[qj]C[hexahedron: I hope the internet blip doesn't repeat
Fanperson112: I wonder what black didn't like about R11 directly, compared to this sequence
Fanperson112: does the 5 minutes timer reset on each d/c ?
newgoacount: believe so
mirreke: yes
NeetName: [object Object\]
Fanperson112: R12 looks like the correct move , what do you think ?
mirreke: the 5 min. disconnect timer is so that your opponent does not have to wait out the full maintime when you disconnect
Owt Reyalp: its just decoration. it aint really working
]
;B[rl]C[Невероятный АЛК: Must blacks play something like S1?
Невероятный АЛК: S10
Fanperson112: another very surprising move (at least, to me
cNewbi: but irl aren't you allowed to leave the game during your time, get a drink, pee, and come back to continue? so wouldnt the reduced timer be unfair?
Skruske: I thought B S11
shapiro.e.e: S1 хороший ход :)
Gkko: the time isn't cut while you leave IRL either @cNewbi
Fanperson112: i think S11 may leave aji around S14
jakubiszon: did this move mean Ilya wantes to kill this whole white group? Q10 + P11 ?
Gkko: it's not like you have a total time you're allowed to go away
cNewbi: thats my point gkko
Skruske: Now P10 cut is large I would think
Невероятный АЛК: I thought S9 or S8 but I didn't ee what number is it)
Gkko: The equivalent of going away IRL is not disconnecting, it's just not playing
dsatkas: Evaluation of the game?
hexahedron: too big to let white trash the right side (B 13%, -12 points). From move 94: R12 S8 K11 R7 
Fanperson112: the game variation is better by how much, supposedly ?
shapiro.e.e: Когда играть G4  черным ?
Saddharmapundarika: black needs R13
Animiral: Game should be slightly bad for black because h5 was not effective
Animiral: I can't judge any of the fighting
dsatkas: Thank u
Skruske: S8 prevents white from connecting underneath right??
Fanperson112: out of all reasons, I don't think H5 is to blame
Gkko: I mean, G4 is still not played
snakesss: steph yin said h5 was to blame
hexahedron: I can't judge the fighting either. :) @Fanperson - about 10% WR, 3 points (but a lot of volatility, the game is simple once white lives)
shapiro.e.e: D6 тоже хороший ход
Gkko: Unless white gets to play it and black can't use the sente well, H5 will have done it's work
Gkko: its*
dsatkas: What does LZ say?
Fanperson112: I see
]
;W[pg]
;B[qh]C[Fanperson112: what did steph yin suggest instead, snakesss?
snakesss: it became a one way game after black did h5 and started getting pressured on the left and middle
hexahedron: ooh fast response by black, looks like again both players are doing the same heavy reading :)
Skruske: This determines the game
snakesss: he shoulda responded on the top-left is what she said, iirc
Saddharmapundarika: I think missing F14 or G15 early on was a big problem for black
Fanperson112: as far as I've seen both player's games, they won't back down a tough fight
Skruske: Yea very aggressive. Fun to watch!
snakesss: left*
Fanperson112: now yes, but in retrospect they seemed so slow
Animiral: can the 2 white stones even escape? Something of white is getting shredded
Gkko: (that's not what "in retrospect" means)
Fanperson112: ah yes
Fanperson112: well, back then, then
mirreke: I dont see the three black stones not getting eaten
NeonLights: Lenin would be proud
Sadiker: no love for P9?
mirreke: the R11 stones i mean
Joaz Banbeck: P9 is ajikeshi
Skruske: P9 is bad exchange right now I think
Xorax: 41. From move 97: 
Fanperson112: if it was that simple, surely ryanj would have captured them already
Joaz Banbeck: If no P9, W may run using kakari of Q7
]
;W[rg]C[Fanperson112: tesuji time
gasana: if no P9 w could get cut too^^
]
;B[qg]
;W[pf]C[Saddharmapundarika: the problem is black keeps losing sente moves atm
]
;B[qf]
;W[ok]C[str901: white is winning
hexahedron: KG says game back to even now
Animiral: there is p9
]
;B[pl]
;W[of]
;B[nk]C[Animiral: w must feel safe about that
]
;W[oj]C[Joaz Banbeck: P9 only after Q11 escapes
Fanperson112: b was so fast to play O9
]
;B[rj]C[shapiro.e.e: G4 time !!!
snakesss: tengen best move
Animiral: maybe o16
newgoacount: that bottom fight is gona be fun
Joaz Banbeck: O16
Fanperson112: this fight is still not finished
]
;W[jj]C[snakesss: lol
Animiral: hah, o16 too slow
]
;B[kj]C[Joaz Banbeck: N10 slower
]
;W[ki]
;B[kh]
;W[ji]
;B[lf]
;W[mj]C[Animiral: and even m14, I thought o16 was better :/
newgoacount: would white not cute m10?
]
;B[lj]
;W[mk]C[hexahedron: and back to good for white after all that, interesting!
hexahedron: still can't read all that fighting, what a mess :)
Skruske: Yea that was beautiful how that played out
maxmakinen8: [object Object\]
str901: white is good
shapiro.e.e: [object Object\]
S_Alexander: white is too good
Fanperson112: I was hoping this game would come, and so far I'm not disappointed at all
]
;B[ll]
;W[nm]C[Telach (4d): great game indeed
cezaa: what is Leela saying?
hexahedron: for reference - example earlier variation where H5 turns out fine. From move 50: F14 G16 G14 R3 R2 P5 O5 Q4 O4 P6 O6 R7 S7 Q7 Q8 S6 G4 
hexahedron: (oops, clickoed move 9 in that variation, but you get the idea)
newgoacount: This is going to be interesting when they start running on time
lukas.kramer.739: i think n13 o13 o15 is becoming really critical  after o7
]
;B[pn]C[snakesss: steph yin is counting and w seems at least 10 points ahead
snakesss: although she said "it's still an even game"
FahadAhmed: can black capture the P10 white group?
hexahedron: it's still a complicated game, yeah
mekriff 白金花: 10pts cash vs b's influence can be a bit close
Animiral: h5 still misplaced and s2 is getting worse and worse, b also behind on points according to stream
snakesss: no
cezaa: anyone running it through leela?
snakesss: cant capture that fahad
Невероятный АЛК: why not P6,
Joaz Banbeck: Q6 looks passive & greedy, at a time when B must fight.
Centime: How does W save their bottom right stones ?
Невероятный АЛК: Why not P6?
S_Alexander: soo, black is screwed? or no?
Saddharmapundarika: N3 white can make a strong attack?
snakesss: i started running it on leela few moves ago but mine runs slow
snakesss: says 85-90 for white
cezaa: ok thanks
Animiral: it looks like white can make 2 eyes whenever. From move 119: R2 R3 S1 T2 T3 S4 T1 Q2 R4 S5 S6 R6 T5 
hexahedron: KG agrees, 92% white (+15 points) at around 130K playouts
S_Alexander: 15 points is huge
Animiral: but what about this..... From move 119: R2 R3 S1 T2 T3 S4 T1 Q2 R4 T5 
]
;W[lk]
;B[kk]
;W[kl]C[S_Alexander: and it's endgamish now
Centime: @animiral thank you
snakesss: there is apparently a huge endgame sequence on topright for white so black needs to fix that
lodestone: Can W live in the bottom right with R2?
snakesss: apparently not
hexahedron: @animiral - I think your second variation is right, white cannot live locally, it's just aji
]
;B[mh]C[snakesss: after q6 white 2 stones dead
]
;W[nh]
;B[nl]
;W[ml]C[Fanperson112: such a messy fight, once again
]
;B[mg]C[Animiral: it's interesting, because white used to have guaranteed life
Saddharmapundarika: stones are dead but it is black that needs make life in the corner
Centime: This is alive, right ?. From move 125: R2 R3 T2 S4 S1 
Animiral: yep Centime 
hexahedron: @centime. From move 127: R2 R3 S1 T2 
derpziIIa: 42. From move 127: R2 R3 T2 S1 
Centime: Thank you all, I'm learning there
Animiral: If w atari from the other side, it's even harder to live. From move 127: R2 R3 T2 S1 R1 S4 T1 S5 P2 Q2 Q1 O3 
derpziIIa: w really want m7
Animiral: @ derpziIIa 
]
;W[lm]
;B[ng]C[hexahedron: woah trade
S_Alexander: wow
]
;W[lp]C[Fanperson112: woah
derpziIIa: nice
gasana: b back in the game
dsatkas: !
Fanperson112: is that so ?
S_Alexander: yin says good choice
Animiral: is he though?
]
;B[iq]C[hexahedron: KG says game back to even now
snakesss: ayyy my weakling of a bot says b ahead now
Fanperson112: really? wow
anton007: nice move
Sadiker: woah, m7 was bad o_o
snakesss: roln roln roln on the river
]
;W[hr]C[hexahedron: black is alive, and Q14 stones are dead now
S_Alexander: maybe ilya is finally sobering up here
BHydden: I'm gussing O16 is smaller than I think it is?
hexahedron: I suppose bots think that white should not have given up on attacking the black center group quite yet
S_Alexander: maybe it's like big but not urgent?
derpziIIa: how big u think it is?
]
;B[ir]C[Fanperson112: it is not small, but white's privilege anyway
anton007: O16 is huge
Animiral: damn white privilege everywhere
derpziIIa: lol
]
;W[io]C[mooooo: ~20p?
BHydden: isn't it maybe like 20 points swing depending on who gets it?
S_Alexander: hmmmm, this lightening 
MooToYouToo: ilya DC?
]
;B[ip]C[derpziIIa: sharp
hexahedron: BHydden - it doesn't save the Q14 stones, it 's smaller than you think
SNREBM: Game 4 flashbacks
gasana: if b plays 016, he has ko next for the corner
]
;W[gp]C[anton007: O16 is almost double sente
]
;B[hs]C[hexahedron: It's white's sente, but black can't afford to connect there yet with bottom fighting going on
anton007: because of P18
BHydden: right that makes sense
S_Alexander: if white won without black ever getting to 50% that would be sad
snakesss: ^^
]
;W[nq]C[justanaverageplayer: what does AI say now?
jakubiszon: "kill all humans"
Reincarnative: lol
justanaverageplayer: -_-
FahadAhmed: 😂
snakesss: but looks like it went around 75% for black, 80ish tops and that should be already close
]
;B[pr]C[lodestone: The loss of Q14 group also probably wrecked some of the nice white endgame in the upper right.
S_Alexander: black's careful
S_Alexander: by the way, will we have closing ceremony? champaign? 
]
;W[nd]
;B[nf]C[hexahedron: game is basically even, kata score estimate has it right about 0 points
S_Alexander: lol
Joaz Banbeck: O14? Nothing bigger elsewhere?
S_Alexander: muh LZ want B18 and win
newgoacount: nooo
newgoacount: internet
S_Alexander: bye, ilya
]
;W[bb]C[tonyhalik: timesuji
Jihadist: ericsuji
Animiral: o14 connects the whole k14 group, no more worries
anton007: lol
tonyhalik: it's super effective
derpziIIa: ::nods::
S_Alexander: i really hope to hear about these disconnects 
hexahedron: keep in mind that winrates via LZ and KG can be highly misleading right now, because they assume Chinese rules and 7.5 komi - they are not reliable when score margin is less than 1 point since this is japanese 6.5 komi
]
;B[oc]C[S_Alexander: was surma also playing from russia?
]
;W[ob]C[SNREBM: Lol
maxmakinen8: yes, surma was playinf from russia
Jihadist: hexa- theres no seki on the board, no reason to assume chinese and japanese would give different result
sriracha: You can set komi for KataGo, can't you? At least when I do it its eval changes...
hexahedron: sriracha - but you cannot set japanese rules (yet)
Ferran: Wasn't Surma also in Russia when he lost?
Ferran: Ah, sorry
hexahedron: so as long as the score margin is within 1 point, you can't really tell
]
;B[bq]
;W[bj]C[Jihadist: this is not a 1 point with high probability board though
]
;B[bi]
;W[ac]C[S_Alexander: learning endgame with pros!
]
;B[ae]
;W[bp]
;B[ap]C[hexahedron: @Jihadist - doesn't matter if it would be a 1 point human game, if it's a 1 point BOT game then the bot analysis is not entirely reliable on who's ahead
S_Alexander: game is close anyway right?
Fanperson112: oh, so white doesn't actually need to add a move to finish top side
Jihadist: obviously. but do you think out of 100 bot games, 99 came out to 1 point to the same side 
derpziIIa: w +4
Jihadist: at this position, i'd wager a lot against that
]
;W[rk]C[hexahedron: probably more than 30 or 40% though
]
;B[sk]C[S_Alexander: close
Jihadist: I havent looked at AI percentages though, so i dunno
hexahedron: and 30% to 40% misscored games (due to wrong ruleset) could swing the interpretation of a wr a lot, no need to speculate at 99/100
]
;W[ao]
;B[aq]C[Jihadist: youre assuming 30% miscount, which is weird.
hexahedron: you understimate just how strong these bots are :)
Jihadist: in most cases, chinese and japanese give same result...
Fanperson112: my counting gives me nothing :(
hexahedron: yes they can pilot a game like this that well :)
Fanperson112: except that it does look very close
snakesss: reading s11?
Jihadist: anyway, if we had seki or something, it'd be very different
Jihadist: but there is none.
snakesss: a5 timseuji-ish?
Fanperson112: but i have a hard time evaluating the M2and H7 area
Jihadist: so no reason to assume the ruleset produces large skew compared to the fact that we have humans playing
Joaz Banbeck: Does G6 defend?
S_Alexander: another DC
Невероятный АЛК: Why do they play such little turns
Jihadist: sente.
snakesss: steph yin says, it might come to the last move
Fanperson112: how are they little ?
Fanperson112: it's the endgame, you've got to play the endgame moves
newtosenthe: white B8 maybe?
S_Alexander: ryan is good at endgame?
Fanperson112: you can play some super extensions in the center, but that's likely dame
hexahedron: 30-40% is probably indeed an overestimate though, it should close to that pretty soon, but probably not *quite* yet
Jihadist: stephanie says ilya is thicker than ryan (who she dates, no?)
]
;W[no]C[Fanperson112: aren't they married ?
Jihadist: i was being conservative :P
S_Alexander: LZ likie 
Jihadist: anyway, thickness joke works
Joaz Banbeck: Have to date both to know
MooToYouToo: wow
Sadiker: N6?
]
;B[bo]C[Centime: Woa
]
;W[rc]C[hexahedron: woah trade
]
;B[cn]C[Fanperson112: huh
MooToYouToo: was this a blunder?
]
;W[hn]C[Centime: How does it make sense for W ?
str901: white??
]
;B[in]
;W[gn]C[Centime: Didn't they lose most of their points in the left ?
BHydden: what do bots say?
newtosenthe: white lost about 14 points
newtosenthe: but got S17
hexahedron: KG has black slight advantage, but only about 1 point
S_Alexander: screw it, kill everything!
newgoacount: it was so white could live in the bottom center
BHydden: wow
hexahedron: or 2 or 3, depending on the move
Purble: So much for a calm transition into a peaceful endgame...
Fanperson112: i think that area was never 14 points
]
;B[mn]
;W[mm]C[derpziIIa: 43. From move 161: S11 T10 S15 S16 S12 R15 T16 S14 T14 T15 
derpziIIa: hm doesn't quite work
derpziIIa: i thought there was something there
NeonLights: Make it work
]
;B[jk]C[S_Alexander: american and european pros are so close in strength, huh
BHydden: can white connect and live with T14?
]
;W[ik]C[derpziIIa: guess no. From move 161: S11 T10 S14 S15 
Fanperson112: what do you mean by live, bhydden ?
BHydden: monkey jump connect to corner
lodestone: you mean save s13 stone?
justanaverageplayer: how about LZ?
BHydden: yes
Jihadist: alex- makes sense. asians are that much stronger because they start very young and work way harder.
Jihadist: westerners have the same way to get to be pro. play casually, git gud, grind at teen years.
]
;B[en]C[Jihadist: no reason to think one organization would be far stronger
ffpls: Guys, can players read us?
S_Alexander: americans have a little bit of asian blood in them
BHydden: ffpls no
maxmakinen8: grind at teen years? way too late if you listen to asian pros.. start in childhood if you want to make it :)
]
;W[dn]C[snakesss: ffpls, at the end of the game, not during
BHydden: not until after the game is finished
]
;B[dm]C[jakubiszon: 44. From move 161: S11 T10 S15 S16 S12 S14 T16 T14 R15 P15 
S_Alexander: wedge is nice
S_Alexander: lee sedol style 
MooToYouToo: 45. From move 169: D5 C7 E7 E8 F7 E9 B6 A6 B7 
]
;W[bn]
;B[an]
;W[bm]C[hexahedron: white nice sequence
S_Alexander: hmmmm
newtosenthe: black is cut off, good reading
S_Alexander: gg?
omi23: ko at b5?
Animiral: wow
]
;B[co]C[Animiral: b must capture
derpziIIa: e5 was op
Animiral: no??
]
;W[do]
;B[cm]
;W[em]
;B[ao]C[derpziIIa: oh
]
;W[el]C[derpziIIa: lol that's why i'm not the one playing
newtosenthe: E8? I thought hed play E9
omi23: what I thouhgt. From move 172: E8 C5 D5 
Sadiker: K7
]
;B[rd]C[Animiral: this might put w ahead
Fanperson112: hexa, what does KG think of the game as of now ?
]
;W[sd]
;B[se]C[hexahedron: KG likes white right now, about 3 points lead
Fanperson112: (with the 1 point margin taken in account etc etc)
Fanperson112: ok, ty
]
;W[sc]C[S_Alexander: so sad
Fanperson112: still not over, Alexander
S_Alexander: it was exciting for a moment and then boom, power of reading
Ferran: You know, I'd actually love to have one of these games played to the end...
hexahedron: still lots of play left
Animiral: j17 for one
Fanperson112: this one very well might
Ferran: Yep
newtosenthe: L2 is big
justanaverageplayer: what does LZ say abt the game?
S_Alexander: what was the longest game?
Jihadist: how does KG stack up to LZ strengthwise?
]
;B[rf]C[hexahedron: KG is about LZ195-LZ200 on equal visits, but is only 20 blocks, so can search deeper given equal time
lodestone: Is D12 sente for W?
VincentPrei: 83% for w
S_Alexander: if aga wins both can we have bonus games of surma vs aga?
Jihadist: ty for the answer
snakesss: white gotta j15, says muh bot
]
;W[on]C[S_Alexander: DC
newgoacount: ew
justanaverageplayer: thanks
snakesss: it's fine, he kept a spare byoyomi for the disconnect
MooToYouToo: don't time out Ilya D:
Animiral: at least the game won't time out immediately
Joaz Banbeck: D12 is sente for W, but gote for B, so W will leave it as a possible ko thret for a while, until temp drops
S_Alexander: nooooooo
MooToYouToo: ahhh
Owt Reyalp: SD ...
S_Alexander: wtf
GetStrong: 46. From move 184: 
Here We Go: Somebody phone the isp
Animiral: aren't we glad we're here on OGS now
Ștefan Radu: J7 likely
snakesss: lets all log out so he can log back in easily xD
MooToYouToo: hope they can pause
ffpls: fuuuuuuuuuuug
Here We Go: No pause allowed, moo
S_Alexander: this is... annoying 
Kamelotusky: Damn
]
;B[oo]C[AdamR: so stressfull
Here We Go: Phew
BHydden: right haha pros have such discipline!
]
;W[im]C[BHydden: i can't play with only 4s left lol
]
;B[go]C[Fanperson112: capture?
newtosenthe: black 66 white 62
]
;W[fo]C[S_Alexander: DC!
]
;B[jo]C[Kountch: Why did not white capture?
Joaz Banbeck: Now L2?
newtosenthe: L2 makes a big difference
snakesss: newtosenthe, youre not new to counting, right?
S_Alexander: DC!
]
;W[hd]C[AlbertYen: White wanted to get sente
Jihadist: ouch H16 huge
newtosenthe: LOL, you just count, like 1, 2, 3....
S_Alexander: hmmmmm
]
;B[id]C[hexahedron: H16 dropped about 5-6 points in KG opinion, black O6 next
Sadiker: O6
S_Alexander: very close 
snakesss: you gotta calculate endgame properly no?
]
;W[ic]
;B[jd]C[S_Alexander: snakesss: antti said you don't calculate during the game
Animiral: it takes time unfortunately ^^
]
;W[jc]C[Fanperson112: b made himself gote no ?
Animiral: yeah I get j16 but I don't get k16, why
S_Alexander: hmmmmm
S_Alexander: katago?
GetStrong: when did Antti say that?
S_Alexander: google antti on endgame
]
;B[jm]C[snakesss: in his endgame vid
]
;W[jl]C[Munis: h7
]
;B[fn]
;W[hm]C[newtosenthe: M2
hexahedron: black O4 big now
S_Alexander: yeah, apparently
GetStrong: thanks!
]
;B[nn]C[S_Alexander: i wonder what's the difference O6 vs O4
AlbertYen: does this move work??
derpziIIa: 47. From move 199: P7 O4 N5 N4 M5 M3 
FriedrichKurt: I like o4 more 
hexahedron: oh geez trade trade trade
AlbertYen: Q7 can break B's formation
AlbertYen: unless B wants to N5 
S_Alexander: DC!
]
;W[ln]C[Joaz Banbeck: Yen: you mean P7?
S_Alexander: white is like "nah, i don't need that"
FriedrichKurt: What says KG now ?
derpziIIa: 48. From move 199: P7 O4 N5 N4 M5 M3 Q7 R6 R7 S7 S6 Q5 T7 S5 S11 T10 T11 T6 T8 
Fanperson112: does he though
S_Alexander: close?
AlbertYen: I think White just lost
]
;B[om]C[vinceuji: white had no choice here
newtosenthe: 49. From move 199: P7 M5 M6 N5 L5 N4 N3 O4 
S_Alexander: black got some moral advantage, but white is ok i think
AlbertYen: White can go L5
newtosenthe: if P7 it was game over for white
BHydden: KG still saying it's close?
S_Alexander: no one played N11?
Fanperson112: how about J15 now ?
S_Alexander: looks big for both
Owt Reyalp: b couldnt play it until now
S_Alexander: Dc!
S_Alexander: another one
]
;W[mo]C[Kamelotusky: I'm nervous... not a dc again please! x.x
S_Alexander: now N11?
]
;B[mi]
;W[nj]
;B[je]C[Animiral: they're finally both in SD
]
;W[kr]C[newtosenthe: white could have played n11 first?
maxmakinen8: bottom was bigger?
Ferran: If I understand the rules right, a DC can lead to a sealed move
Fanperson112: i don't get why N5 was so urgent
Ferran: https://transatlanticgo.org/ dispute resolution a)
dneg: SD!
]
;B[np]C[Sadiker: E3
S_Alexander: dc though means black is at a disadvantage throughout the game
]
;W[mq]C[S_Alexander: that means i can complain later
newtosenthe: yeah N5 looked like a questionable move
]
;B[kq]C[BHydden: time pressure maybe
]
;W[lq]C[hexahedron: KG agrees with stephanie - super close
BHydden: exciting
]
;B[jr]C[S_Alexander: H4 E3 sentes
jf.baraton: [object Object\]
]
;W[ls]C[S_Alexander: yin is leaning towards black win
]
;B[hp]
;W[fm]C[snakesss: e3
Ștefan Radu: B8?
Sadiker: O2
S_Alexander: life is hard
hexahedron: black up by 2ish points?
snakesss: lots of sente moves for b?
MooToYouToo: AHH
]
;B[nr]C[S_Alexander: by the way, what would be the decision if played out game scored incorrectly?
Owt Reyalp: wowow
GetStrong: haha
S_Alexander: dcs
Owt Reyalp: that dc was last second
]
;W[mr]C[T0T0R0: crikey
hexahedron: internet trouble sucks
MooToYouToo: so stressfull
]
;B[ns]
;W[bl]C[dneg: /o\\
S_Alexander: i live in russia, can confirm, internet is like this here
]
;B[jg]
;W[on]C[mokuhazushi22: I don't think I've ever seen Ilya having connection troubles on fox... very odd.
dneg: so hard to focus on game while having internet troubles
]
;B[nn]C[dneg: ilya doing his best wow
]
;W[dh]
;B[ch]C[AlbertYen: I think B+1.5
hexahedron: KG things black has this in the bag
S_Alexander: why black can't just play e3?
AlbertYen: not urgent
hexahedron: black can E3, there's no need to do it yet, it's sente any time
S_Alexander: but why not?
snakesss: :D
]
;W[gg]
;B[hf]C[Animiral: as long as there's moves >=2 points, e3 is premature
Fanperson112: because ko can happen
Joaz Banbeck: Save E3 for ko
lojastygm: he can use this move for time too)
Fanperson112: as long as you don't need to, you don't
]
;W[kp]C[MooToYouToo: so close!
Fanperson112: can also help if you need some extra thinking time, as it's about absolute sente
Animiral: l4??? isn't that just 1 point
hexahedron: KG has black +2.5 under chinese rules
Kamelotusky: o15 first now?
S_Alexander: or 0.5 points?
]
;B[ne]
;W[md]C[gasana: 1,5 at least for l4
]
;B[aj]C[mimano: excuse the  simple question, but what does KG stand for?
knight4st: 1.75
]
;W[ak]
;B[ai]C[Razza99: katago
AdamR: one of the new AI bots
]
;W[cj]
;B[di]
;W[oq]
;B[or]
;W[ke]
;B[eq]
;W[eo]C[mimano: thank you
]
;B[ig]C[newtosenthe: white 67, black 77
]
;W[ij]C[snakesss: GG
]
;B[kf]
;W[am]C[snakesss: did you account for the komi?
newtosenthe: no
S_Alexander: new hot thing, katago. lz is old now, not very attractive 
Fanperson112: and captured stones, newtosenthe?
Jihadist: Lizzie still best girl
Fanperson112: because that would have white+0,5
newtosenthe: yes of course lol
]
;B[js]C[hexahedron: don't trash-talk LZ, LZ still sweet :)
]
;W[jq]C[S_Alexander: is this the last point?
mimano: :)
Yaka_Go: It's nice to see with katago that actually all these '70-80%' leads with lizzie, are not usually 2-3 points differences in the mid game. Often the game swings to 10 point leads or more
Joaz Banbeck: Does game depend on 1/2 pt ko?
gasana: KG can run on lizzie?
mimano: I am still a lizzie man :D
dneg: what is KG?
NeonLights: KataGo
BHydden: steph is saying black by 2.5
]
;B[ei]C[dneg: oh
Jihadist: how does KG estimate points?
Yaka_Go: The lizzie people are making katago compatible with lizzie
]
;W[ko]C[Yaka_Go: but it's not done yet
BHydden: similar i think but KG uses chinese
Razza99: lizzie doesnt estimate 'points' only winrate
Razza99: katago does both
]
;B[ms]C[Jihadist: yeah, my questions is How.
Yaka_Go: If you go to github and mess a bit around, you can manage to make a version of lizzie with points :)
S_Alexander: lizzie is only interface, don't mix up!
snakesss: 78 to 76.5?
Yaka_Go: but you need to be able to build it yourself
]
;W[ks]
;B[kq]C[Jihadist: i mean, alphago papers only talk of winrate. i'd think estimating points would require new science
]
;W[ri]
;B[sj]
;W[jq]C[gasana: ouch, i won't know how to do that^^, but thx
]
;B[fi]C[newtosenthe: sorry I gave black 1 extra point, so I think it should be 9 point lead
]
;W[gh]
;B[kq]C[Jihadist: its actually academically interesting if it can be done correctly
]
;W[re]C[Fanperson112: with last week's game also, there were many lead swings : do you think that the ability to win a won game is a thing euro and aga pros should improve on ?
]
;B[sf]
;W[jq]
;B[hj]
;W[ii]
;B[kq]
;W[sl]C[Fanperson112: or even for asian pros, it's more than common
]
;B[sm]
;W[jq]
;B[pb]
;W[qb]
;B[kq]
;W[si]
;B[sl]
;W[jq]
;B[il]C[Jihadist: i mean, bots are just stronger :P
]
;W[hl]
;B[kq]
;W[bf]
;B[af]
;W[jq]C[Fanperson112: that is true, however completely irrelevant
]
;B[fn]
;W[en]
;B[kq]C[S_Alexander: jesus
]
;W[ag]C[hexahedron: ooh, black is going to gain from this ko
Jihadist: a won game for a bot its 50-50 for a human at times.
]
;B[ah]
;W[jq]
;B[hk]
;W[gk]
;B[kq]C[Jihadist: so its not "winning a won game"
Animiral: b out of threats
Fanperson112: by won i mean solid lead
Coorchac: \\o/w too
Coorchac: w too out of threats
Jihadist: solid by what metric?
Animiral: lol
Yaka_Go: it's hard with this format as well. They play a lot in byo yomi
Fanperson112: and i think we can agree that W had a good lead at some points in the game
Jihadist: bots? human estimation?
Animiral: n6?
Razza99: a18?
Joaz Banbeck: R3 threat for W?
]
;W[lr]
;B[jq]
;W[kn]
;B[jn]
;W[mn]
;B[on]
;W[mp]
;B[ej]
;W[km]
;B[ek]
;W[]C[AlbertYen: no
Animiral: r3 not
]
;B[]C[Crazywind: Thanks for the game
MooToYouToo: gg!!
anton007: Europe!
snakesss: does that ko matter?
Kiren: gg
Animiral: GG
Jihadist: FOR MATEUSZ
Purble: gg
snakesss: :D :D
MooToYouToo: Great final game
Animiral: congratulations Ilya!
S_Alexander: gg
Coorchac: yaaay \\o/
S_Alexander: so fast
mark5000: gg
anton007: gg
mokuhazushi22: gg
Here We Go: Gg
tonyhalik: gg
SuddenSalad: gege
💖 KoBa 💖: gg
Coorchac: congratzzzz!
Centime: gg
VincentPrei: gg
Kamelotusky: nice game you both! :)
SzyHar: Congratulations Ilya!
hexahedron: good game!
mimano: Well done Ilya
knight.erraunt: gg
lodestone: gg
jf.baraton: congrats ilya
GlennMartenRobin: Wow, GG!!!
Ferran: OK, thank you for the game. Congrats
Oni: GG
💖 KoBa 💖: awesome game!
jakubiszon: Congratulations!
Kurowasaki: gg
Kamelotusky: congratz EGF! :)
BHydden: GG and congrats EGF
anoek: Congratulations Ilya :)
poberl: gg
MoOoOoH: gg
gasana: GG
Shusaiku: gg!
maxmakinen8: Congratulations Ilya & EGF!
JackVorobei: MALORIK!
jf.baraton: good game AAGA and EGF
Gkko: Bravo!
Artemy: Ураааа!
ffpls: КРасавчик!
smurph: GG
snakesss: worthy of a finale!
T0T0R0: gg
hausmilbe: Gg
trohde: Congrats Ilya, and thanks to both for an exciting game!
Wojtek84: Gg! 
SNREBM: GG both players did good job, congrats EGF.
Strengwert: Конградилейшнс, Илья!
NeonLights: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PqZTP8-8wIs
Fanperson112: great game
Ophi1: Thanks to both players for a nice game.
S_Alexander: my interface completely froze lol
hexahedron: yep, great game!
💖 KoBa 💖: congratulations ilya for winnign the oturnament foe egf!
S_Alexander: and everyone got to play!
Animiral: look at that beautiful Leela graph, all the drama
キツネ囲碁: @animiral that leela is probably weaker than you
linduxed: yeah, that's some serious back-and-forth
キツネ囲碁: her analysis is gibberish half the time
Animiral: it's not, anoek fixed the worst bug from the first release
Animiral: it's pretty reliable now, off by a few % maybe (somehow it doesn't make the best move +- 0)
Razza99: M1 losing move?
hexahedron: the modern bots are very strong, even when run at very low playouts, but they're not oracle-level even at high playouts. At low playouts they can definitely misevaluate moves and be self-inconsistent, they're just very strong "on average"
shinuito: Congrats!
Vanlash: move 128 i thought would be o13
ζ(1): [object Object\]
])
