Thanks to the Board and to Lorenz for making the outcome known so soon. Thanks also for the documentation of votes.
Hope to see many of you in Oberhof.

Ingo (working in state Thuringia, to which also Oberhof belongs).

And see you in Sotchi maybe in 2019! :-)
Natalia and Co. have had a very good proposal, but maybe main problem was that EGC was in Russia this year, already, and most people think it should rotate from year to year. So, in the future, Russia will have good chances with Sotchi, right?

Kind regards, Tobias Berben

An actual documentary about the EGC 2017 hotel PANORAMA:
http://www.ardmediathek.de/tv/Der-Osten-Entdecke-wo-du-lebst/Oberhof-und-sein-PANORAMA/MDR-Fernsehen/Video?bcastId=9397858&documentId=39607954

I claim full honours for forcing 'democratisation, new openness, and correctly predicting the proportional outcome of voting, not even knowing voting weights in less than 10 seconds - as better than 5:1! :P

IMHO, the four for Sochi voters of the board should still step down and bend their heads in shame, humiliated by a 'volunteer journalist' they never showed any respect for! Amen.

Who were the four in the board who voted for Sochi?
IMHO only Russians had reasonable reasons to do so.
The rest lost their faces - for at least a year, isn't it?

Peter,
I cannot remember you being around when Maxim, Natalia, Manja, Martin and myself discussed the issue and wrote our statement of how we would like to handle the situation and how we condemned the shitstorm that had happened. How can you claim that you forced democracy?
In addition, the Sochi proposal is a good one! There is absolutely nothing wrong in favouring it over the Oberhof one. I did not like the process the first vote was made, but I certainly do not enjoy reading insults against our Russian friends here. Both proposals were made with the intention of making a great event for the go players! Please show more respect to the volunteers who made these options possible and to the people on the board who had to take quite a few difficult decisions (Turkey: yes/no, member vote; ideally yes, but no time, approval of consulting vote,...).

Having said this: We invite everybody to come to Oberhof and make a big go party whereever you come from. Thanks for your support; we will try as hard as possible to make your stay in Germany as pleasant as possible. (On average, you are like to lose every other game of go though -- please do not mind.)

It was expected but i'm really dissapointed in European go players. If at least quater of them thinking like this Peter - it's shame for Europe. It's absolute aggresive commentaries from the start and at least someone pointed it to him...
I can't even see any reason for him to hate and despise russians so much. I have never considered Europe being bad even knowing about Alex from Makedonia, Napoleon. Hitler being from Europe and wanting to conquer all the world.
"Claim for Honor" - yeah, you are awared to be known as most racist and nationalist here.
Why you so powerful not forcing something useful for Europe? As i know there is quite a problem with refugees(have some friend native German). Force their exile.
I'm saying thanks to Marz, Tobias and others for being polite. That how must be competition. Winner trying to humilate defeated ones - has no honor, proud and dignity.

The decision is perfectly understandable. The countries have decided not to burden their players with visas, and Oberhof, being in the center of EU has a higher chance of attracting more players on such short notice. Sure, Sochi had its own perks, but I guess the executive board was underestimating the complications for casual players. Maybe another time.

@Michael Marz. I wasn't around, as no-one invited nor informed me.
All answers t9 your other questions are answered in my earlier posts here
and at five or more Go pages in Facebook: my own private profile, Go in Amsterdam, Philosophy of Go, my one month old European Free Go Hosts,
and outside of my editorship at a Belgian Go Page.

PS: 'paduk' should also work as verification code!

For you and all other who criticize me for something:
READ ME FIRST! I posted and keep re-posting updates
and short summaries every other day everywhere!
It is DEFINITIVELY NOT MY FAULT You don't know yet!

EFGH has ful democrcy: one member one vote.
EGFG never voted before, but broke promises
ever since EGC in Olsztyn, which was to be
Tuchola-3 (perfect) or before that Gdynia (super).

I knew Olsztyn better than organiser Pavel Noga, who kicked me out
for editing bulletins - so none appeared at all (EGC-2011 in Bordeaux
were the last - a one man show as editor! ) and resigned soon after
'his' semi-success EGC from everything, losing his face for good,
for abuse of my reputation and insulting my reputed wife, a top
journalist in Warsaw (her mom lives in Olsztyn, so I do know it! :P).

Any more questions? I will answer after you all inform yourself! - PoPE

@ Michael, about my expertise in European Go

IN SHORT: I am PETER-san, Mr "Go in Europe",
for most Asian pro's, amateurs and reporters.
Often the only one they know from seeing
my face every year at EGC's again, etc.

-- I caused 1985 (my second ever) to be held at Terschelling (NL),
by a single tip to Robert Rehm, my sensei.

-- I played last time at EGC Budapest, almost making sho-dan, playing Stiassny in r.3!

-- I decided there to retire and focus on fun and reporting from EGC Grénoble 87 on.

-- I started GO MOON, at the occasion of very first Japanese opening in Europe,
Honinbo-sen of Otake and Takemiya (both know me well!) in Paris, two days before
A'dam Int. where GO MOON #0 appeared with the game at page 1 and 2 and only other recent pro-games from Japan. This record in fast publishing still stands!!
At the Affensprung I presented 200 copies of #1 and at EGC-88 HH 500 of #2!
I was left alone by my 'best friend' and had to do sales and admin. myself.
Hence the large losses I made and the big back-stocks under my bed still! :(

-- I skip lots of EGC's and years:

-- I checked in 2012 premises in Gdynia for EGC-13 during one of my visits with my club president, friend and driver Harald during our fortnight stay a Polish Summer School Camp im Kaschubischen Tüchler Wald. They were very fine, no need for EGC
to intervene at all, being none of their business. In stead they ruined it twice even!

-- I made sure some Simon from Vienna did all he should as organizer of EGC Villach-07, during all 2006 writing him daily mails from Warsaw, based on my over 20 years of EGC experience, with tips and instructions bringing continuity which lasted till Leksand, as Tampere organizers couldn't afford to invite my and pay my trip)
until the day it began. He flipped out 2nd week. Me not, every evening hosting Chizu Kobayashi 5P (I know longest from all pro's and Mrs 'Meijin-Honinbo', ordering guys
to get up and hand over their chairs, until I walked them to her hotel, one block away.

-- I made sure EGC-10 Groningen got good local press reports, in deep contrast
to the daily Volkskrant - their mind games Bridge reporter is a shodan from 70ies,
.. who was so stupidly shown around the incompetent big belly prez of NGoB! So sad!

Those as stupid - ASSes , and donkey-monkeys bonbo's - as completely undeserved overly self-confident 'bobo's '[bondsbonzen in Dutch, invented by footballer Ruud Gullit] should really do nothing at all and leave all press contacts to me, my network is large and covers llots of Europe!
I cover most languages, speak half a dozen fluently, long before Google was born!

- I was Founder, first Prez, still hon. Prez of (EGCC) Two Eyes Go club, successful by having no plans at all.
(I did not need that club at all beyond my 3 evenings per week in A'dam old town!
I did it for Bridge Champs like Max Rebuttu (EC Silver with his Dad in Biarritz and 'Holland Honinbo for 6 times the title in a dozen years undeafeated), Gold winner Anton Maas (I met in 1968, now Bridge coach to many national teams, including his wife's women's often Gold Winners, and many others in A'dam-South and A'veen).
As Prez of Two Eyes, I left all to the three great gals in my board!


-- I co-organised Maastricht, Tuchola-1, Tuchola-2, did bulletins a dozen times
or more, 7 to 10 times as editor-in-chief.
- I get my copy of Go Weekly with the article about the EGC of the year before from miss Harumi n-dan, who told my wife during the 2nd Prague reception, I am the most respected and famous Go journalist in Europe :P
_ I am a long time European correspontant to the AGA er-Journal, friend of the late BoB High (AGA secretay), who sent me all their Go-songs in triple), AGA Prez Roy Laird, and many others
- I am a friend of some 100 pro's. I recognised Zhang Wendong in Leksand 08 as the WAGC of 1989, no ID he was Weiqi Vice-Prez at the time! :D
- I wrote first 80 News from Europe for wbaduk. I corrected their English, became triple friend with Semi Lee, its editor. Know most Korean pros and former inseis in the West.
-- I am at a photo in Igo Club (merci Farid Benmalek!) , reporting from the Meijin In Frankfurt, or Kisei-sen In D or Meijin-sen in B (last time I met multichamp the late Jürgen Matternand at both losses by Cho Chiklun in Amsterdam) .
-- I said goodbye to Iwamoto senseu several times at Schiphol Airport.
-- I wrote and translated one year for 321go.org
- I wrote for Ranka & Go World at least 5 times each: about the year of Go in Holland, France, Germany and/or Europe.

I am a full time volunteer European reporter since 1986 - with breaks from 1994 to 2006 - which I spent mostly in Warsaw doing reporting for Newsweek, Playboy, women magazines, dailies, press agencies PAP (PL) and ANP (NL) the dailies Het Parool, Nieuwsblad van het Noorden, Financieel Dagblad (B).

You are too young to know public stuff in Go, and the rest I never boosted about until now! Warning to all: before you try to teach me a lersson or put me back 'at my proper place' ... think twice! First time I can be polite. Sercond time I can be really mean, especiaaly to self important people in boards covering up each others asses.

I know perfectly which great things Masza and Manja, Tobias and Steffie and some capable commentators ers in St. Petersburg did. I reported daily from Amsterdam at my pages! I praised anyone who deserved so: Manja, Grigory and many others. I also pointed out what went wrong there: mainly hardly any of the elder 'usual suspects' like me and many more of my generation from NL, D, F, etc.

Peter, I can understand why you critisize how the board acted when they decided to choose the venue for the congress without a consultative vote, but "the four for Sochi voters of the board should still step down and bend their heads in shame"? Why not 3 Oberhof voters as well? I'm sorry, you might be all that what you claim to be, but in my opinion, you are not fit to be "Mr Go in Europe". You can be mean to me, to my fellow Russians, to Europeans who don't discriminate againgst nations, or to anyone, I don't care, I'm just glad that you have no real power and no voice in any serious decisionmaking, so your chauvinistic views can be confined to your facebook pages. Amen.

Hi all,

I think Peter Dijkema is writing only for himself. Please, do not get the impression that he represents the European Go scene or even the Dutch Go scene.
I might even think that it would be helpful to delete his rambles from this thread.

Shalom, Ingo.

******************************************
@ Tobias Berben: The EGC 2019 has been given to Brussels. But I would like to see an application of Sochi for 2020.

The EGF has managed to find a way out of a difficult situation where the majority of the members disagreed with a vote of the executive board that had been done under immense time pressure. Given that the board showed this flexibility and understanding for the situation, I think they deserve praise rather than criticism!

I also think that the Go community should stand together now and work towards a successful congress in Oberhof. And this congress will not be a German one, but a European one. And Russia and Turkey are of course also part of Europe and the European Go Federation! There are wonderful ideas from the Turkish team that will be made real in Oberhof now, instead of Cappadocia and I am looking forward to collaborating with the Russian team as well!
The goal is to have a nice congress for everyone and we will all together work on that!

Last year, at the Huangzhou conference on table games I presented weiqi as the strategic element of an innovative inner discipine.
I would also be pleased to give this information to Europians.
P.S. In 1979, at the Europian Go Congress of Koenigswinter, I presented Go as an evolutionary model.

Hello Dario and others,
if you have any kind of contribution to the EGC in Oberhof, please contact me directly: <mimarz @ dgob.de>
Thanks,
Micha

@Tobias don't you forget that 2019 will be in Brussels? ;-) As far as I know this is not disputed and we are getting ready to give you a warm welcome in Belgium!!

Yes, your are right. 2020 is good enough!

Kind regards, Tobias

@Poet PETER Dijkema
You have so much merit!
According to an old Soviet joke: Because of the abundance of awards the back of Leonid Brezhnev should be considered a continuation of his chest. :)

Hi, didn't get a chance to thank Natalia and her team for the brilliant organization of this year's congress so i might just as well do it now.
No discussion here, this was one of the best ever organized EC and a model to follow.
Nevertheless Russia has two major drawbacks as a location, expensive flights and visa, which by the way is not the fault of the organizers.
So i thought EGF executive's decision for Sochi was a questionable one, main reason being the tradition to hold the congress every year in a different country, plus the drawbacks mentioned above. This doesn't mean it's ok to be rude to the Russians, i am pretty sure that a Sochi congress would have been even better organized.
Glad that it finally worked out, Happy holidays !

Just +1 for Peter Dijkema
I very much liked reading your Congress-bulletins.
I was disappointed when they stopped being issued.
If you come to Oberhof I`ll bye all the issues you edit.

Thx to Catalin!